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Lineage Stories of The Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoches

This interview took place in the Vancouver residence of The Dzogchen Ponlop, Rinpoche. Rinpoche occasionally wandered over to our table to join the conversation. (From Bodhi Magazine.)

Bodhi: Hello, Tenam-La. Thank you for talking with us today.

Tenam-La: Hello.

B: Dzogchen Monastery is the seat of The Dzogchen Ponlop, Rinpoche in Tibet. It is also your monastery. You grew up very near there. Would you please tell us a little bit about it?

T: Dzogchen monastery is in Eastern Tibet, in the region of Derge. It is one of the six main monasteries of the Nyingmapa lineage. The Dzogchen Monastery was first built in 1689.  At that time, the Dzogchen Pema Rigzin, Ponlop Namkha Ösel, Shalham Rabjampa and the Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa (all Nyingmapa Rinpoches) came from central Tibet to Eastern Tibet. Our monastery has been in that area since that time.

B: They were looking for a particular area to build a monastery?

T: Yes. They came from central Tibet to Eastern Tibet to build a monastery.  They found a large rock with Guru Rinpoche's footprint on it. Near there, they stopped and made tea for a tea offering. When they offered the tea, a crow took the offering.

DPR: They made the fire to make tea. And then? (To Bodhi) They made an offering. You know, for the mahakala shrine, you have offerings….The crow took the tea offering and dropped it on the spot where the monastery is built now.

B: And that is seen as auspicious?

DPR: As a prediction, from our Protector.

B: That's Mahakala?

T: Maybe. Then all of the Rinpoches were thinking that they should build the monastery in that area. They stayed there in retreat for a few years before beginning to build it. The first story, the phowa story, happens during this time.

B: So the first story happens before the monastery is actually built?

T: Yes. The phowa story took place when all of the Rinpoches were in retreat. Near their retreat area, one old woman lived alone in a cave.  She had several goats. Every day she would come and offer the Rinpoches goat milk. Then one day, she didn't come. Dzogchen Rinpoche said, "Rabjam Rinpoche, go to the cave to see if the old lady has died. If she is dead, do phowa for her."  After Rabjam Rinpoche left, Dzogchen Rinpoche took the old lady's namshe (consciousness) and put it under his bowl.

DPR: She's dead already. So he took her spirit, so to speak, dead consciousness, and then he put it in his cup, which was upside down. She's trapped in that.

T: Then Rabjam Rinpoche went there to see she if she had died. He found her body and did the phowa but he couldn't find her namshe, that is her consciousness. Rabjam Rinpoche returned to their retreat and told Dzogchen Rinpoche, "I can't do phowa because her namshe is under a big snow mountain." (laughs)

DPR: Her consciousness. Her spirit.

T: Then Dzogchen Rinpoche sent Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa to do phowa for the old lady.  Then Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa went and tried to do phowa. At that time, Dzogchen Rinpoche noticed the cup move.

DPR: When Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa did the phowa, the bowl was shaking, trembling. Sort of getting a little bit there. Dzogchen Rinpoche is kind of testing them. Testing their power.

T: Then Dzogchen Rinpoche put a dorje, a vajra, on top of the cup.

B: So he's making it harder.

T: When Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa Rinpoche came back, he said the same thing, "Her consciousness is under a big snow mountain. I almost succeeded."

DPR: He couldn't do it then because he saw a big vajra right on top of the snow mountain. So he couldn't do it.

B: He saw the vajra?

DPR: Um hum. And then?

T: Finally he sent Ponlop Rinpoche to do the phowa. When Ponlop Rinpoche was doing phowa, both the cup and the vajra were thrown away.

B: Thrown away? Disappeared?

DPR: The bowl lifted.

T: When Ponlop Rinpoche returned, Dzogchen Rinpoche said, "This is very good tendrel. This shows that the whole succession of Ponlop Rinpoche incarnations will have special phowa siddhis, very powerful." 

All of these Rinpoches' achievements in practice were no different, but at that time the First Ponlop Rinpoche manifested his special power of phowa for the benefit of sentient beings.

B: Through this "test," Dzogchen Rinpoche saw that the lineage of the Dzogchen Ponlop, Rinpoches would have special abilities in phowa?

T: Yes, that's what they say in Tibet. At our monasteries, when local people die, their relatives come and ask for Ponlop Rinpoche to perform phowa.

B: Maybe you could tell us a little bit about these stories in general. Is there one person in the monastery who remembers the stories and tells them? Or do many people know the stories and tell them?

T: Many people know them. Usually, the old monks talk together telling stories about what happened before. They talked and I listened.

B: Do the villagers know them too? Are these very famous stories in the area?

T: Yes and there are many different aspects of Ponlop Rinpoche's activities which are famous among the people.

B: Can you tell us another story?

T: Another story is of the handprint of the First Dzogchen Ponlop, Rinpoche.  This story happened after the First Dzogchen Rinpoche passed away. At that time, the First Dzogchen Ponlop, Rinpoche was living near our monastery, by a hot water spring. After Dzogchen Rinpoche died, Ponlop Rinpoche was very sad. Sometime during that period, the King of Derge sent a messenger to Dzogchen Monastery. This man brought a letter to Ponlop Rinpoche from the King. The letter was an order saying that Ponlop Rinpoche must come to Derge. At that time, Ponlop Rinpoche was very upset because Dzogchen Rinpoche had passed away. He was probably doing pujas, and the King's letter interrupted him.  He picked up a stone like this (ed.: shows the stone held in the palm of the hand with the fingers wrapped around). Holding it in this way, he left his whole handprint on the stone. Then Ponlop Rinpoche said, "Give this to the King of Derge."

B: He gave the stone with his handprint to the King's messenger?

T: Yes. When Rinpoche left his handprint on the stone, it looked like the tormas we usually make from tsampa for ghost offerings (ed.: demonstrates the shaping of a torma with his hands). These are offered to ghosts. Ponlop Rinpoche took the stone, and shaped it like that with his hand. "Give this give to the King of Derge." (laughs) The messenger was very scared. He didn't know what to do. He thought, "How can I give this to the King of Derge? If I give him this, he will be very upset. If I don't, Rinpoche may be upset. So he gave it to the King. When the King of Derge saw the rock with Rinpoche's handprint, he said, "Oh, this is a very great blessing!" He put the rock on his shrine. This rock was still there in the King's palace until 1959. But now I think it's been destroyed.

B: No one knows where it is anymore?

T: No. (silence)

B: Please go on with your stories.

T: There's a very nice story about how the First Ponlop Rinpoche recognized the Second Dzogchen Rinpoche. After the First Dzogchen Rinpoche passed away, the First Ponlop Rinpoche knew where Dzogchen Rinpoche would be reborn. In order to find him, he left the monastery alone, without attendants. He went on his own and was gone for three or four years.

B: He was gone that long?

T: Yes. People along the way didn't know who Ponlop Rinpoche was because he was disguised as an ordinary poor man. He to went Amdo first and traveled all through that area. Then he went to Mongolia for two or three years, disguised as a shepherd.  In Mongolia, he found the family of the Second Dzogchen Rinpoche. This family was a large, noble family and Ponlop Rinpoche looked like a simple poor man. He knew that Dzogchen Rinpoche had been born into their family. But how was he to get him? So, for a few years he worked as a shepherd, staying close to Dzogchen Rinpoche. But he couldn't find a way to get him out. Then one day, he took Dzogchen Rinpoche and ran away. Rinpoche and Dzogchen Rinpoche were on foot. The Mongolians were riding horses. They chased them!  But they couldn't catch them!

B: He never told this family that he was Rinpoche and their son was a Rinpoche? Did Dzogchen Rinpoche know who he was?

T: He never said, "I am Rinpoche."  I do not know.  They returned to Dzogchen Monastery, and later Ponlop Rinpoche brought the whole family and all of their relatives to the monastery. Even today, we have descendants of this Mongolian family in the region of Dzogchen. For many generations, we have all been one family. I met one of these relatives when I was in Nepal

B: Are there any other stories that you would like to tell us?

T: There is another important story that begins with the First Dzogchen Ponlop, Rinpoche. He began a tradition that was followed thereafter by all of the Ponlop Rinpoche incarnations. He had many stones gathered and carved with the mantra "Om Mani Padme Hum." Then he had these stones arranged into a pile. So many mani stones (ed.: each stone carved with the mantra is called a mani stone) were carved that the pile was huge.

When the local people would make offerings--of money or a horse or a yak--a lot of this was spent on adding mani stones to the mani pile. We called this "Pönlop mani."

B: It sounds like "Pönlop money."

T: Noooo.

DPR: I wish I had that much money.

B: Where is this located?

T: Between Shechen and Dzogchen Monastery.

B: Is it still there?

T: A little bit. But the Chinese took most of it away to build bridges and highways.

B: So they were just lost?

T: The people in the villages tried to put some of them back.

T: I have heard all these stories from Khenpo Dechen Namdrol, Lama Paljor, Tulku Pegyal and Konchok Tsultrim, an old monk at Dzogchen monastery. Konchok Tsultrim was not too old but he passed away when I came to India.

DPR: Oh, now he needs phowa!